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Emotions Untapped
Welcome to the Emotions Untapped podcast, the show where we uncover all the information you need to better understand, use and manage your emotions in a positive way. When we understand our thoughts feelings and emotions we not only become more familiar with ourselves but also can foster healthier relationships with others. If you're aim is to relieve stress, communicate effectively and defuse conflict, empathise with others, overcome challenges and overall just have more meaningful relationships, then you've come to the right place. If you are searching for direction and more fulfillment in your life then the Emotions Untapped podcast was made for you. Each week we sit souind with therapists, experts, thought leaders, healers and so many more to bring you the tools and insights you need to start living a more emotionally intelligent life now.
Emotions Untapped
#015 PART 1: Anger, Self-Forgiveness & Healing The Father Wound with Shaun Spencer
Part 1: What if overcoming life's toughest challenges could lead you to your true calling? Join us on Emotions Untapped as we uncover the remarkable path of Shaun, a former professional athlete whose dreams were shattered by injury but who rose from the ashes to become an influential Hall of Fame coach. His journey from aspiring basketball player to Olympic track and field athlete, and finally to a life dedicated to empowering men through fitness and well-being, is a testament to resilience and transformation. Sean opens up about how an unexpected opportunity in track and field shifted his career and how his subsequent struggles with depression and alcoholism fueled his passion for coaching and mental health advocacy.
Navigating the complex landscape of anger and forgiveness, we explore the often-hidden emotional struggles of young men, particularly those who grew up in challenging environments without strong paternal figures. We reflect on the internal battles that arise from being the eldest sibling in a chaotic household and the survival tactic of suppressing emotions. By sharing personal stories, we shed light on the importance of mental adaptability and the journey toward self-forgiveness. Shaun and I discuss how understanding the roots of one's pain and releasing guilt can lead to profound healing and personal growth.
Our conversation goes further into breaking down emotional barriers, focusing on the societal norms that often teach boys to suppress their feelings. With insights from the book "Chin Up, Chest Up," we discuss creating safe spaces for emotional expression and the crucial role of active listening in relationships. We also explore how fostering open communication between parents and children, and offering a non-judgmental ear to those we love, can bridge generational gaps in understanding and nurture healthier relationships in today's technology-driven world. Join us for a deeply personal and enlightening discussion that promises to resonate with anyone seeking emotional clarity and connection.
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Welcome to the Emotions Untapped podcast. I'm your host, livia Lauder. This is the show where we explore the power of our thoughts, feelings and emotions and how they create our personal and professional realities In this community. We dive into better understanding, using and managing these elements of ourselves so we can live healthier, better balanced and less overwhelming lives. You'll hear conversations with experts and thought leaders from a variety of fields here to help you gain insights, strategies and tools for building and upgrading your emotional awareness and regulation techniques, and there will be a couple solo episodes with yours truly. It brings me so much joy to share this information with you, to connect with you and guide you on your journey. If you're ready to start doing the work, you can download our free seven-step guide to improving your emotional health right now. Just go to wwweqnationorg. Now let's dive in. Sean, thank you so much for being here today. It is an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome to Emotions Untapped.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I'm really looking forward to this conversation because we're speaking more to the men here in this conversation, as you are a coach and you coach specifically with men Now. You are a former professional athlete. You did track and field on the Olympic team, which is really fascinating A Hall of Fame coach with over two decades working in fitness and well-being all over the world. So I think it's really fascinating as you shared with me in the pre-interview kind of how your career and how that journey led to the work that you do now.
Speaker 2:So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about that with us do now, so I'd love for you to share a little bit more about that with us. Okay, so a lot of people find the track and field part to be super exciting, and I always tell people it was purely an accident. It's one of those things that you accidentally fall into. So I was a basketball player.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:High school, excuse me, middle school, high school, aau, travel team, all that. But I wanted to play Final Four best for college, Got into a university at a late age, around 21. I didn't make the team the first year, as good as I was, because colleges they choose their team in the summer, where high school chooses their team in November, which is pretty standard, but colleges do it the other way around. I didn't know that. So because of way around, I didn't know that. So because of that, I didn't make the team, because at that time they're only looking for one or two key people. So I said, okay, fine, I'll get ready for next year. And then a friend was like hey, come to this, practice with me, it'll help you stay in shape. What is it? Oh, it's track. I don't run track, I don't know how to do that. He says come anyway. So I went uh, the coach lets me, you know, practice with them. He tells me immediately hey, we don't have any spots on the team, you're welcome to practice. I said I'm a basketball player, I don't do this, but I could jump very high from my height. I mean at the time I was 6, maybe 6'1". I'm 6' three, six, three and a half now, but I could jump very high. So, as I was practicing them, they enjoyed it. And then, next thing, you know, they say, hey, you want to join the uh Olympic training team for adidas. And I'm like don't know what that is. Will it help me for basketball? Yes, and then from there, uh went into my athletic career and I eventually stopped because I ended up failing out of college and I had to get back in because I was spending too much time with Adidas as a professional athlete and I couldn't do both. So stop that back in the school.
Speaker 2:That's when I started getting heavier into the coaching work with young men and then I started coaching athletics there and that's when I won my college championship and then got inducted into the Hall of Fame for Division II. And then, from there, I got re-recruited to train with a Nike team in North Carolina for the 2008 Olympics that were in Beijing. And then, short, short, short, a little bit shorter story, I ended up getting injured eight weeks before Olympic trials. Didn't hurt myself, never fell, it was time. So at that time I was 28 years old.
Speaker 2:Most people who are training for the Olympics are 21. Their body hasn't been through so much damage. So me being an athlete since five years old, my body was like we can't do it anymore and my knee gave out and it was one of those things that led to depression, frustration, alcoholism, uh, everything pretty much, and then, eventually, from there, rebounded after about maybe eight months, went back to my hometown in New York, as well as Maryland, where my mother lives. And then that's when I decided, okay, I couldn't do what I wanted to do, but to stay focused because I feel like my gift is helping.
Speaker 2:I decided to help people around the world, started with fitness, then it became fitness and well-being, because that's a large part of training working out. So it is the mental aspect, and because I had experience as a professional athlete, a Hall of Fame coach and as well as I worked for the Pentagon for almost 10 years. I had the military experience as well and I come from a military family, so I ended up bottling all of that into my coaching and then, of course, fast forward even more. I got away from more so the training aspect and went to just the coaching aspect. Sum it all up that's about almost 20 years, right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love how it just kind of naturally had its own progression and took you through all these different journeys and all these different phases of your life. And I remember in the pre-interview talking about you know, the Pentagon stuff, there was a lot of ways that you kind of overcame anxiety and saw other people struggle with anxiety and that has been a big part of your coaching work that you do now as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that has been a big part of your coaching work that you do now as well. Yes, huge part, because my anxiety goes back to my childhood. So my father, my father, my parents divorced 14 years old and from then I would just in the neighborhood. I was in, in and out the streets, but basketball was kind of what saved me and then but that's kind of what saved me and then but that's part of what saved me. But the other part that kind of kept me out of specific trouble was when my parents split.
Speaker 2:My mother made sure and this is a large part of my coaching when it comes to young men, men as a whole and with helping women, is that one of the smartest things my mother did was she didn't talk bad about my dad. They were their own separate issue. The focus was on us and she knew that at my age I'm 15, at this point I'm in and out. She knows that I'm in and out the streets. She got me around a group of men to help continue raising me, teaching me values and how to be a young man and family values, honor, loyalty, how to have respect for other people, and that's one of the main things I tell, like you know, a lot of young, young ladies that I that I trained with, because most of them over half of my clients are women, so that's one of the aspects that I work with them.
Speaker 2:Most of them over half of my clients are women, so that's one of the aspects that I work with them was like, yes, you guys, I say you guys may not be together, but your son needs to be around some positive male role model, whether it be a good friend of yours, whether it be an uncle, whether it be a church member, like my mother kept me in church and I was wrapped. I had about eight or nine guys wrapped around me and basically their way of teaching me was they knew I love basketball OK, sean, let's go play basketball and they would teach me little family values and little things that I could see them with their wives that they've been with for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, and they would just teach me little small things within basketball. Basketball was just having fun for me, but I was also getting lessons in between that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really fantastic of your mom to recognize that and really be intentional in making sure that you had that community around you. I think that's a huge part of potentially what's lacking in today's society. As we know, there are a lot of broken families, re-blended families, a lot of divorce rates are very high and, especially for young men, not having that role model, a proper male role model, in their life is detrimental and it causes a lot of pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah it, it caused cause I was an angry kid. It's just you could. I was very good. One of the one of my gifts were I was able to hide my emotions, because at that point where my parents divorced, a lot of my friends were in single families. So I was like you know what? I'm going to be like them. Well, I'm already like them. And then the people I was meeting on the streets, they didn't show any emotion. So I said, okay, that's what I have to do.
Speaker 2:But then being in the streets led to anxiety, lots of it, because you're always doing this, looking over the shoulder, you're worried about this, worried about that. Then you come home, you're still angry, you're still an angry teenager and you try to do what's best for your mom, trying to be a young man, trying to be a grown-up. At 15 years old, you're the oldest, I'm the oldest, the oldest of three. So now I'm the oldest, the oldest of the three. So now I'm trying to lead by example. What does a 15 year old know about anything in the world? But so that's kind of where it was.
Speaker 2:Anger, uh, anxiety from the streets and just my anger led to me. A lot of the cool stuff that I've done was not done out of oh hey, I like this, let's do done. Was not done out of oh hey, I like this, let's do it. It was done out of pure anger. Olympics, training for that anger. Being a teacher, anger. I wrote my first book, anger. I've got so many different things and it took me 27 years to get rid of that anger because I didn't know how. You know there are other situations that happen which we can get into shortly, but essentially that's and that's the story of most young men, you know, that lose their fathers.
Speaker 1:Right. And one thing there that you said that really stuck out to me and find interesting was that you said you know to be emotionless, like it was your superpower to hide your emotions because that was the environment that you were in, that was what the people were doing around you and I guess, in a way, would you say that it was kind of your protection mechanism in a sense.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, the, the, that's every person who was in those extreme environments who do not seem to show emotion. That is there. That's one of their superpowers, but one of my one of mine, I would say definitely one of my superpowers was not just the being able to put my emotions to the side, I was able to mentally adapt to in the environment. So, short story, I got in trouble, uh, in again industries doing stupid stuff and we ended up in court and the judge decides he wants to teach me a lesson. Granted, I didn't think it was the right thing to do, it was really something petty, but now I'm actually thankful that he did. But so he ended up putting me and my friend in jail for four days, basically over the weekend, and people would always ask me you know, weren't you afraid? You're a kid? And I was in there with accidentally, of course, you know the court system goes. I'm in there with people who do things to women I don't want to use certain words but who do things to women, abused children, who have killed. I'm in there with those guys and people, weren't you afraid? And I always tell people I was never afraid.
Speaker 2:I was afraid of one thing Because of my ability to mentally adapt. I was afraid of getting used to that environment. I was afraid of becoming that environment, because that's what happens with young men. When they end up in there, they accept the environment for what it is and some can mentally adapt and become whatever they need to survive. Some can mentally adapt and become whatever they need to survive Because by the time you get to those bars you're already broken. Once they bring you into the building, they start breaking you from the minute your first foot goes into the door. So mental adaptation emotionless was two of my greatest superpowers, and mental adaptation is what I teach now, not so much the emotionless. I teach young men and men in general how to understand the emotion, how to release them in a way that makes them comfortable. Then comes the mental adaptability, more so business-wise, people-wise, environment-wise.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Yeah, so you are working with well men and women. But what is the most common challenge that you help all your clients overcome? You did mention anger before, and there's a few others in there that we spoke about in the pre-interview as well.
Speaker 2:Forgiveness, a few others in there that we spoke about in the pre-interview as well. Forgiveness that's probably even outside of men, just people in general is forgiveness, and it's not even so much forgiving the other person. That part has actually become pretty easy, you know, if you allow yourself. But then there's another half of it, which is yourself, Because we tend to say, OK, I did this, I allowed this, I did. We have to forgive ourselves for. You know how we felt going through that, because sometimes we have to blame it on ourselves. Oh, it was my fault, I should have did this, and or later on, you think I could have gotten out of it. I should have did this. But still there comes that forgiveness part.
Speaker 2:So my case I was angry for 27 years. I forgave my father years ago but I never dealt with my own issues. I never forgave myself for being that angry kid, for being that kid that was spiteful, that would take my mother's car in the middle of the night and go to a dangerous neighborhood to play basketball, that ended up getting into the system. One who for years just tried to prove a point that I was good enough, that I was worthy enough, that I'm. You know I am a good person. You know I had a gym teacher.
Speaker 2:Just after my father left I had a gym teacher watch me play ball one day. I was really good First time dunking the ball. Ever Ball comes off the rim. I just so happened to jump up, catch the the ball, realize how high I was and dunk the ball came down. My friends were excited. I'm like oh yeah, and I feel someone standing behind me. I turn around, it's the gym teacher. So I'm thinking he's gonna you know as an l, as a kid, and you see an elder you're. You're thinking he's gonna give you something and everyone's celebrating you. He just kind of looks at me and just says you're a waste of talent.
Speaker 2:And basically just says get the F out of my face and walks out Completely destroyed me. And that's why I said all those years I'm trying to prove a point. Because from that moment on I said I'm not a waste of time, I'm going to prove if I find anything that I'm interested in, not only am I going to do it, I'm going to do it better than the best professionals. And because I had that ability to mentally adapt, I could become whatever I needed to be and that's what I did. But the reason he said that is because he knew I was in the streets. He knew I was hanging with all the wrong people. He knew I was great at basketball but I had a 1.3 GPA. He knew that. That's why he said that. So even now I'm like you know what, even though I did all these different things that's great, I did them out of anger. But I'm thankful that experience. It did help me in some ways, because now I can understand why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I can see you know where. Like you say you've had all this anger for all these years. I can see you know how that situation specifically could have and would have made you pretty angry. To prove your point right, Like that seems like he really lit a fire under you and perhaps that was his intention A little bit of what's the word Like reverse psychology essentially on you at the time, especially being such a young, impressionable boy, that was kind of a little lost perhaps right, A little lost, and a little bit kind of getting caught trying to find your way, trying to find where you fit in and where you belonged. And, um, I really appreciate how you can, you know, share that story with us now and say I can now look back and reflect and kind of realize where that came from instead of still being angry at it yeah, it took me a while, but yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:Just understanding where that came from was like, yeah, sean you, yeah Sean, you were wasting your talent. You were in the streets hanging with the wrong people Like it wasn't that. I wasn't that, I wasn't intelligent. I just chose not to Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a difference. Yeah, yeah, we'll be right back after a quick break. I hope you're loving the show so far. The personal development journey can feel lonely sometimes, but it doesn't have to. We are here to help each other succeed at figuring out this whole growth thing. So come be a part of the conversation at wwweqnationorg. There you'll find links to our free community, which is full of valuable resources to get you feeling unstuck, less stressed and more connected to yourself and the people around you. And if this podcast does bring you value which I'm sure it will chances are it will do the same for someone else in your life. We are all about bringing value to the collective.
Speaker 1:So share this episode directly with a friend or pop it on your socials with your biggest aha moment from today's show, and don't forget to tag us at Livia Lauder. That's L-I-V-I-A dot, l-o-w-d-e-r. Right, let's get back to it. So, on the topic of anger, then you say you know this is a big part of how you support your clients to help them heal the parts of them that harbor that anger. What techniques do you teach them to master, to being a calmer individual?
Speaker 2:One of the first things I do is I just listen. I don't offer any type of rebuttal. I'm like, oh wait, maybe you could try now. I just listen. Mostly with young men, they're just looking for someone just to say you know, I hear you, I get it. Older men as well. Same thing. Who's not going to challenge them every moment? So you know what, I hear you. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:And then the next step is do you you enjoy having this feeling, being angry, being frustrated? No, I hate it. Ok, well, then let's get rid of it. Ok, well, I don't know how, because this and this. Ok, well, let's take a step back. What's important to you? Have you forgiven yourself? Have you forgiven this person who's done, who either knowingly or unknowingly did this to you?
Speaker 2:My father never knew the pain he caused me until I told him 27 years later. He just thought I was just a kid. All right, well, kids can be kids. He would try to contact me. I mean he knew I was a little angry because I didn't answer the phone, I wouldn't see him or talk to him for eight years. Didn't answer the phone, I wouldn't see him or talk to him for eight years, but he, he never truly knew how angry I was.
Speaker 2:So a lot of times we try to go back to the root of what it was, and sometimes a lot of pay, especially with young men, because we'll hold on to that. All right, like, always. Tell people like, and most people know this for young men we don't show emotion, we don't give emotions, we don't. But when we do but let's take the high school when we like a girl we like, we give our heart to her, which we don't give too often it's the world to us and then, when it's broken, or if it's broken, we don't know how to recover because we're not taught that as young men. We're taught how to survive, we're taught how to take care of a family, we're taught how to work, but we're not taught how to deal with this. It's just something that you know, this generation, they're being taught that which I'm so thankful for. But my generation I'm 46. My generation, the generation after me, that wasn't a big thing. So we go back to the root. What it was, who was it? If you want to talk about who, what it was, how did they make you feel in that moment? Do you think they knew what they were doing? Do you think they were doing what was best for them or what was best for you.
Speaker 2:And then we started breaking it down, just simple questions of what the guy, what his opinion is. I'm not here to tell him he's wrong. That's for him to figure out and put together. I'm here let's bring it all out so we can see it in 3D and figure out how can we get rid of that. For example, it's like watching I don't know if you've seen Iron man, where he kind of has this little office. He takes like a little ball and just kind of opens it up and there's these little dots everywhere and I look at that as okay. Here's your anxiety, your anger, your happiness, your this. Your trying to figure out what, these small little anger, resentment. Let's look into those. We're angry. You have every right to be angry. Your father left you. He had no answer for you. Okay, how do we get past that? Did you forgive your father? Yes, did you forgive yourself? What do you mean? And that's what starts.
Speaker 1:Right. So how do you teach that then? I mean self-forgiveness, I mean that's a pretty, I mean it's going to be on an individual basis, of course, right, for all your different clients. But what are some of the kind of foundational teachings that you have around really getting people to understand how to forgive themselves?
Speaker 2:One of the biggest things I gosh. I can't remember. I learned this when years ago, I can't remember where, but basically it's funny. I actually did a video recently. It was called. I Release you.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And basically it's the idea to say I release you from hell, or release you in the pain that you caused me. It's not that you acknowledged what you did to me, it's not that you even care, but I do this for myself. I'm releasing you so I can move on. It's not that I agree with what you did or that I was wrong in a situation. So then we take it from there, the releasing of the person. Then we go to. There's a next step where it's imagining that person as a baby. Imagine that person as an adult, as a young adult and then as an old person. You know it's the. Can we get into the mind of that person? Do we think that person might've been doing what they thought was the best thing? Is that all they knew? Maybe they didn't have the education, Maybe their father did the same thing to them?
Speaker 2:I had a conversation with my father, maybe almost a month ago, and one day I just said hey, you know, dad ask me, and I asked me tell me about grandma and grandpa, because I never met him because they died when I was very young. So he said he told me about his mother, and I remember some of that and I'd seen a picture of her. I said okay, what about your dad? Father was like. I never knew him and that made a lot of sense as to what happened with his and my relationship. Now I understand why it was, in a sense, so easy for him to make certain decisions because he never knew his dad. He was not, he was never instilled with those specific values.
Speaker 2:So when you, when I work with a client, we're able to go that far back, Then this is OK. I can see not that it was right, but I understand now why this may have happened. Again, it doesn't make it right, but now I can understand how this happened. Then we start getting into okay, let's work through. Can we forgive ourselves? Okay, yes, Can we forgive that? First we start with that person, Then we work on ourselves, Just small things. It's not like, okay, I'm going to forgive him in one day. No, it's a process.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What do you love about your dad? Well, what did you love? What made you happy when you were a kid? Okay, you never met him. What would you like to have done with him? What kind of things did you envision? Is it a father-son baseball game? Is it riding the bikes together? And then we start bringing a more happier, happier thoughts, as opposed to the anger, especially if they didn't know the father that well, or if you had some time with your father. We go back to those days and then what would you have liked to see? And it starts opening the mind into more honorable waters and they become actually oh man, I would have loved to this. Oh, I'd love to that, because your father's still alive. Yeah, he's still alive. Well, there's still time to make new memories and remit their relationship, and we kind of go from there.
Speaker 1:Fascinating. Yeah, I can see how the self-forgiveness aspect and the harboring anger can kind of come in somewhat of a harmony and be kind of, I suppose, healing those two parts of someone simultaneously through what you just described.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah you first part forgive the other person. But the heart, especially for us young men. I know some ladies think they can be pretty stubborn when it comes to the emotion, part A1, we are the most stubborn because we don't understand. You know, especially if you're above a certain age, you're taught that showing emotions is weakness and, uh, it means you're you're. You're soft, you're this, you're that. You're not a man. You have to be a man all the time. Chin up, chest up this is like that was the name of my uh. Second book was called chin up, chest up and I tell my story from as a young boy, growing up as a military kid, then from the moment my father left and then the whole transition. So a lot of what we just talked about is actually in that book.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Yeah, well, I just want to say, you know, just quickly like, thank you so much for sharing your personal journey and your personal story. It obviously like ties into a lot of how you help others here now today, but it is, you know, it can kind of take us back to that place and obviously you've done a lot of work on yourself and you can show up here today and share that. So I just, yeah, I just I see you in that and I really appreciate that it is to what you just mentioned as well.
Speaker 1:I think that's starting to change now that you know young men are brought up in a world where it's like, you know, don't cry, be tough, we're not, or we I shouldn't say we they are not really shown or encouraged to show much emotion and quite the opposite. So then you have, you know, of course, these young boys growing up into young men with those beliefs and those behaviors and that conditioning. Growing up into young men with those beliefs and those behaviors and that conditioning. But would you say that that's perhaps on a societal cultural level kind of, you know, across, you know you've done work in a lot of different countries with a lot of different people. Would you say that that's starting to evolve now?
Speaker 2:Yes, I definitely say it's starting to evolve, because I um, emotion wise, I would say I think we I try to kind of craft this the us is probably the most expressive at times of our emotions, even though over the years it's not been a big thing, uh, big thing. But. But in regards to young men, like I've worked with young men and women in Saudi Arabia, the Middle East, they're taught to be men. And in the Latino community, same thing the boys were taught to be men. We work, we do what we have to do, we take care of family. The emotion stuff gets thrown out the window. Right Nowadays.
Speaker 2:You find the fathers and then our my generation. You find them being more expressive now they're hugging a little bit more, because I think the value of life has become more important than the value of work and being this hardcore, important than the value of work and being this hardcore, because the way things are changing, the way you know people are are dying left and right in certain situations. The world is getting crazier. I think the men of the world are starting to say you know what I need to? Let me pull my son in a little closer to say let him know that I do care.
Speaker 2:I may not be able, I may not be at that point where I can say I love you son, because I don't know what that's like, because my father never said that to me. But maybe I can just give him a hug, just give him something. That's starting to happen more, because how crazy these times are fathers are saying I need to really start protecting my son. I need to try start protecting my son. I need to try Now. Some don't, but there's other issues within that one. Yeah, it's definitely evolved.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. And then I guess, when we look at, okay, so we're talking about young men and boys growing up and having this, now this is kind of starting to change. So I'd love to kind of speak a little bit more to the women here now in this question that you know, the mothers, the sisters, the aunties, even just friends, family members, you know the women that are around young boys nowadays. How can they begin to, you know, encourage more of that expression, create that safe space? And then also, perhaps, speaking to the adult women who have, you know, male partners, who perhaps have this similar trauma from their own childhood, perhaps like a lack of a male role model, and now that they're, you know, in like an adult relationship. So that's kind of a two-part question, I guess. For the women supporting, yeah, I mean you could speak to kind of one and then the other, perhaps women with sons and with young boys, and then we'll kind of move on to women supporting, like their partners, their equals, yeah, Okay, so, oh, I can tell you what.
Speaker 2:this one with mothers, the first thing, just listening. The same thing with a state most young men and adult men, our foundations are not too different.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:As far as when it comes to our emotions, especially if we weren't taught. The first thing is to listen and understand and also, as mom, understand, you're a mom, so you can only be with. So cool, now, there are some cool moms, don't get me wrong. But we naturally yearn that attention from our father. He's the cool factor to us. Now mom has a completely other role, because our first best friend is our mother. That's the first person we meet. That's the first person we have love for. Then we grow as we get older. We're still growing our love into our father, like, okay, who's this guy? Okay, this is our dad. Okay, great, I love this person. But basically, listening is the first thing. So, okay, tell me about what's going on and be able to listen without interjecting. Now, as a mother, that's difficult because your first instincts are to protect, whether we protect the emotions in the moment or try to jump in and try to help. Sometimes you just got to listen. And my mother she's gotten good at that over the years because before she would try. Well, son, I'm like mom, you're not listening. Sometimes you just got to just wait and say do you want me to listen, or do you want me to respond, or do you want me to jump in? Give those three options. Do you want me to just listen until the end and then give my perspective? Would you like me to jump in here and there? Or just what? Would you like me to jump in here and there, or just what would you like? When you open that door, we don't feel like we're being chastised because you weren't there to see what happened. How do you feel? You don't know this pain or whatever is happening here. So I just want you to listen to me and then, after he's done, say okay. Well, would you like me to give you my thoughts on a few things and just be open. Try to meet him in the middle, especially if he's young, if he's a teenager.
Speaker 2:Today's teenagers are very different than when I was a teenager, very different. They grew up with technology. They have way different problems. Technology, they have way different problems. And if you're a parent, then you're, you're likely older than me or you're in my age bracket or maybe even slightly younger. But we grew up in similar times. So our foundations, our beliefs, certain things, our struggles fairly similar, but what these kids have now, it's a whole nother world.
Speaker 2:So when you, you want to meet them, you first have to understand what is, what is their world? What are they living in? We have to understand social media. You have to understand the influence. Most kids have depression, not because you know they're something sad, really bad happened. A lot of them are depressed because of what they see on social media. Most people have anxiety because of what they see on social media. Most people have anxiety because of what they see on social media. Most people are feeling like they're less because on social media you have people who are living fake lives and making you feel like you're horrible. Unless you live like me. But I live in Los Angeles. I know these people, these influencers. I know them. They don't live that way. Trust me, it's very interesting, but online these kids don't know the difference.
Speaker 2:So start with the listening, listening to understand, and then it's okay. Would you like me to respond In the middle or the end? That's that, just little by little, day by day. How are you doing? I'm not here to chastise you. Okay, you made a mistake. Okay, fine, it happened. How do we get better instead of harboring on that mistake? These kids aren't built like us. They don't. They don't have that grit, that strength that we were raised with Any person who's 30 and over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we grit that strength that we were raised with. Any person who's 30 and over, it's different.
Speaker 1:So well, 28 and over, I'll say so for the younger generation. That would be some of my advice. Fantastic, and I mean there's similar. I feel like that can relate as well to the adult woman supporting the adult man, to just listen, that's, you know. I'm sure that would be a huge factor as well. Was there anything else that we'd want to add to that scenario? Yeah, so for now.
Speaker 2:I was going to shift over to the young men now. So for I mean for the men, so for the men, like you said, it's very similar. The first key thing is listen. As adult men, we don't want you necessarily to solve our problem. A lot of times we're just trying to get out because, especially if you have a man or husband or whatever who's very creative, he works in a high stakes job or he works in, we're natural problem solvers and we love doing it. That's why, if you put an Ikea box in front of us, give me a beer, get out of here and give me 40 minutes. You know what I mean. That's how we are. We love that element. So when we're having a problem, it's the same thing. Just be willing to listen. Or, if you want to be in there while putting this Ikea thing together, chill out, hey, you know, hey, can you hand me that tool over there? Can you hand me that? So can you. But don't try to solve it for me. This is where this is what I love. I'm coming to you or I'm opening up because I need, I just need someone to listen to me. Then again, from there, do I respond? Okay, great, and it's one of those things where you almost have to help him get to the solution without giving him the solution, because we yearn that, okay, I figured it out, type of thing. That's just something that's built within us young men.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite things when I was dealing with my anxiety was I loved working on the Rubik's Cube. This is something that I always have with me and I use it for any anxious moments that I'm having. But I also use it for keeping my mind sharp, looking at things three-dimensionally, because as I move this thing, it's never the same Every time. I manipulate it, manipulate it, go through it and I try to fix it. It's never the same thing each time, and that's how we like to see things. We love that challenge.
Speaker 2:So I would tell people don't tell me how to do it, just okay, what are some algorithms that I can use, what are some different ways, and then I go from there. So help him get to that solution, but make him feel like he did it, you know. But the listening is very key and, again, nonjudgmental, because, just like a child, you have to be gentle and kind with our emotions, because if we're, if we're, if we're a man who's over 40 years old and we weren't and most of us weren't taught how to deal with our emotions. It's not going to be difficult to trigger us. If we have control. That is not going to be hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's, that's a great share, and I think you know, from the woman's perspective, if I may, it is kind of that would be a practice and it would be quite challenging to, like you say, kind of lead the man to the solution without giving him the solution, giving him the space to figure it out on his own, because you just want to be nurturing and helpful and let me show you the way Right. It's kind of like our natural instinct as well. So there's really there's a fine balance there, and I think this is what makes, you know, interpersonal relationships so complicated sometimes there, and I think this is what makes interpersonal relationships so complicated.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, yeah, yeah, and to that point it's like, for example, my girlfriend when I started talking oh man, there's this, I'm trying to figure this thing out, I have this program I'm putting together and then I'm completely overthinking it. But if she comes out and says, oh, my God, you're just overthinking it, I'm going to go into defense mode, like, no, I'm not, it has to be. And she learned over time. So, okay, I don't want to solve it for him because he's just gonna fight me on it. But then she says, okay, all right, I'm listening, and sometimes she'll even take notes. Okay, she'll, but she's listening for the things that I'm saying. Well, I mean to the answer. And then I'm like I'm. And then she can tell like, okay, he's done, he's spent. He's like, okay, well, are you open to what I think, some ideas? I've been at this point it's just like, okay, all right, what do you have? Okay, you know how you ladies are.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you, I think this could be great, because you did say you wanted to create something that the Rubik's Cube community can love, but you want to make sure your general audience feel like, yeah. Well, have you ever thought of? So you're asking open questions have you done this? Not like you should? Whether you should, you need it will be best for you, avoiding those more of just saying, okay, have you thought of this, did you already think of that? And say, okay, because maybe you have. But have you thought of this and that's like, oh, yeah, then I could do this. And baby, look, if I could do this, you know what? I got it Job done. He feels like he got it. All you did was suggest that okay, maybe I did miss that point. So it's kind of, you know, reverse that. I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I like that. I like that. It's like just tweaking those words. Yeah, just speaking those words ever so slightly, and boom, that's magic sauce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes we'll kind of say, hey, you know, I need your opinion and that's all. We're looking for your opinion, your thoughts, and just leave it there. Don't say, okay, hey, look, you should, you should, you need.
Speaker 2:Try to avoid those, because then we're going to fight you, because now we feel like we're being told what to do and in those moments we like to be open and say give me the ideas, let me become great. If you want to lead a guy towards helping him with his, let's say his. Like I hate flying, but I have to fly a lot. She said, okay, well, you ever think of taking your cube, but you want to? Oh yeah, have you ever thought of just read the book or just kind of relax a little bit? Oh okay, all I said was I hate flying. And then she come okay, well, here's some things that could help. Not you should take your cube, you should do this, you should take your cue, you should do this.
Speaker 1:You should take drama you should.
Speaker 2:That's how we deal with us hard-headed men.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's fantastic, super practical. I'm definitely going to practice that in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, that concludes part one of this interview with Sean Spencer. Be sure to head to the next episode in the queue to check out part two. That's a wrap on today's episode. I am beyond grateful for your participation in today's conversation. My intention is that the information shared here today has inspired you to deepen your understanding of your emotional health and that of the people around you emotional health and that of the people around you. When you're ready to start sharpening your tools, head to wwweqnationorg and download our free seven-step guide to upgrading your emotional health. Our website is the best place to connect with our community and get access to free resources. You can also send us your questions through our social media channels linked on the website wwweqnationorg. All the resources from today's show will be in the show notes and before you go, make sure you hit follow so you don't miss an episode. I'm Livia Lauder. See you next time on Emotions Untapped.